Boston Celtics: Does What Ray Allen Want Really Matter?

Boston Celtics: Does What Ray Allen Want Really Matter?
January 27, 2010 by Nick Gelso

Ray Allen’s expiring contract has now taken center stage. During the eight months we have seen the future of Glen (Uno Uno) Davis and Rajon Rondo come into question, get shopped and remain in Boston with higher paid salary extensions. Now Ray Allen’s future seems to be going down the same path. Hearing sound bytes like, “it’s a business” and “we will have to see how it plays out,” has made me think the impossible about Ray. Will he be a Celtic next season?

Always intelligent and classy, Ray remains in love with being a part of the Celtics franchise and made it clear that he would love an extension before the end of this season.

From the Boston Globe:

“I would love to be here,’’ Allen said Saturday. “In my mind right now, for me there’s no other place to be. It’s a great tradition. This is really NBA basketball to me, being a part of a team and the tradition of winning, a great fan base. But the situations have to be addressed. There is a business connected to it. The team is going to do what they think is necessary. We’ll have to make a decision based on how they come to me business-wise.’’

It’s apparent that Ray is concerned about his future being some where other than Boston. Ray Allen has made a ton of money over career. When talking about Steve Nash’s decision to take a lesser salary last season, Ray has all but come out and directly tell the media that he would settle for a lesser salary to remain in green.

From the Same Article:

Allen doesn’t want to be in that situation, which is why he said he’s ready to agree to an extension now if the Celtics are interested. “I am a loyalty person. If the opportunity presented itself to get a deal at the current moment as we speak, I would be all over it,’’ said Allen, who is averaging 15.9 points per game. “So moving forward, I don’t have to worry about how the summer is going to go and long term we at least between myself, Kevin [Garnett] and Paul [Pierce], we know we are going to be here, Rasheed [Wallace] and [Rajon] Rondo. You know what the core is going to be.’’

Ray seemed to forget about Kendrick Perkins who is signed through 2012. The core line-up, as Ray sees it through 2011, would be Rondo, Peirce, Garnett, Perkins, Allen, “Uno Uno” and Wallace. That line-up would have an average age of 31 years old and what may be even more scary is, to round out the rest of the six roster spots, the Celtics would have about 12 million dollars, counting Ray as a 10 million dollar salary after this season. That does not even address Paul Pierce’s re-signing in 2012.

If you think Ray Allen is concerned about playing time and salaries as he enters the twighlight of his career, think again.

From the Boston Herald:

“Have you ever known me to worry about being in the game or playing less minutes?” he said. “I’ve always said I would love to see Tony Allen play more. I would love to see Marquis (Daniels) in there playing more minutes. It means a great deal to this team.

“We’re in a great position on the floor and we definitely plan to play a long time, going into June. It does spare me. It spares me a great deal, but the one thing I can say is that I’m in great shape. I never feel winded when I’m on the floor. I’m going to come out and I’m going to need a break, and to get guys in there who are just fresh, period.

“This is what I do for a living, so I live my life according to it – how I’m going to play when it’s game day,” he said. “Forty minutes is a lot of minutes as you get older, but whatever comes up next year and however it comes, I’m ready for whatever it is, whatever Doc (Rivers) needs me to do, whatever this team ends up being. I could fit right in with what needs to be done.”

And he would do it in a way that fits this team’s financial picture.

“At this point, what I’m making now, I made a great living throughout my career,” he said. “I know going into next year I won’t make the money I’m making now. I know that.

“I’m ready to be here. I’d love to retire with this organization. That’s up to the team, but I want to be here. This team has proven over decades to be a winner in sports. I’m committed to it, and that’s what I would like to do.”

Ray’s remarks to the media is what always drives my heart to pump “vulcan-like” blood, wanting him to retire a Celtic. I cannot allow my heart to rule my head and though I am not required to make any decisions regarding Ray other then to have a complete temper tantrum if he is dealt, Danny Ainge is required to make major decisions.

As discussed, in detail, in this week’s edition of the Celtics Late Night Show, I would absolutely love to see Ray re-sign for about 8 million and re-enforce the Celtics bench while Danny goes out and shops for a top tier shooting guard to play along side of Rondo. I would love to see Joe Johnson come back to Boston– who wouldn’t? However, as discussed in the show, re-signing Ray may make the signing of a top tier guard like Johnson impossible this summer and without a similar upgrade, where does that leave the C’s entering the 2011 season?

Consider my “Keep Ray Allen Campaign” to be officially on hold. Going in depth with salary cap whiz, Craig from 4 Sport Boston, during the last edition of the Celtics Late Night Show, kind of brought things into perspective for me. Witnessing the Celtics challenges with age this season, it’s apparent that the C’s need to get younger next season and by the looks of it, that may mean dealing the one guy who best epitomizes Celtics Pride.

17 Comments

January 27, 2010 at 4:44 am | Craigga

Tick… tick… tick… ; )
January 27, 2010 at 4:47 am | Nick Gelso

I said the campaign is on hold not finished! lol.
January 27, 2010 at 4:56 am | Jeremy

Nice roundup. I’m now informed on the matter. Thanks
January 27, 2010 at 5:03 am | Lucy

While I read this, it felt like a million daggers were plunging in and out of my heart. I hate to think of someone with his work ethic, talent and devotion playing on an opposing team. I mean, it’s not like the guy sucks…16 PPG is pretty good.
January 27, 2010 at 6:47 am | Nick Gelso

It pains me as well Lucy.
January 27, 2010 at 9:28 am | Hithendra

im half dead as celtics fan by reading this…….he is the only 3 point shooter in our team, only player who can be trusted on free throws. only player who is consistent of making double digit points per game, only player who wont be sick with injuries, only player who never gets fouled out……

did we forget his play vs bulls in last year playoffs ?

cmon dont trade him, let him be here…getting rasheed is not a great move…he is an old guy, we should have got an young guy who is improving his game much and has an ability to play much…….

i am having a really scary picture of our C’s match winning % after 3 years !!!!!!

GOD SAVE OUR TEAM !!!!!!
January 27, 2010 at 10:22 am | Jean Andrew

Ray Allen is probably the best pure shooter in the game of basketball, all-star, furture hall-of-famer, and great human being. He has stated he will do whatever the franchise asks and needs of him and he knows it will be for less money. He’s ok with that and would love to retire as a Celtic. If the Celtics can’t be creative enough to come up with some way of doing that without risking their chances of getting what they need for next season then they have really just become another basketball team and Celtic Pride is DEAD!
January 27, 2010 at 12:40 pm | Nick Gelso

Excellent comment Jean and I would have to say that I agree. I would want nothing more then to see Ray retire in green. We know he will settle for “less” money, we are just unsure how much “less” he will agree to. Thanks for reading and commenting!
January 27, 2010 at 12:42 pm | Nick Gelso

I agree w everything you just stated about my man Ray. Thanks for reading and commenting.
January 27, 2010 at 1:47 pm | Lee Herman

The only thing I have to ask is this; if it comes down to it would you rather have Ray traded and get some value back or let him leave at the end of the season and get nothing?
January 27, 2010 at 7:35 pm | Calvin

Assuming the rumors are true, the Warriors are offering Monta Ellis for Ray Allen’s expiring contract. Are you kidding me? Monta freaking Ellis? Ellis is a better scorer, rebounder, passer, and defender than Ray Allen at this point in their careers, and that is not even taking into consideration the fact that Ellis is the focal point of that offense and sees constant double teams. You would have him through 2014 at a “reasonable” 11 million a year, flat. He is only 25 years old. He and Rondo would make for the fastest guard tandem in the league. They would combine to provide a murderous trap and fast break. All of this for a player who might be a nice guy but is clearly past his prime, on a team desperate for health and youth. In fact, to get Ellis for only Allen is highway robbery and reflects the complete incompetence of the Warriors.

I know you are fond of touting the youth-oriented aspects of your team, but outside of Rondo (who I think is already your best player), the most important players on the team are all beginning to show signs of decline. Kendrick Perkins is a nice defensive player but has yet to show offensive skill with any consistency. Bringing in Ellis would instantly provide a jolt of youthful energy and would probably make them favorites for an NBA title. In fact, the prospect of that happening horrifies me.

And look, your loyalty to Ray Allen is commendable, but he has only actually been a Celtic for 2 1/2 seasons. Assuming he makes the hall of fame (While having the stats to get in, I actually think toiling away in Milwaukee for the majority of his career and being underrated puts him somewhere closer to the borderline), he will ultimately probably be known more as a Bucks guard regardless.
January 28, 2010 at 12:49 am | Nick Gelso

Lee,

I would rather complete this campaign whole. Nellie is never going to give up ellis and I don’t feel he is a good fit for our team anyway.
January 28, 2010 at 1:08 am | Nick Gelso

Calvin:

#1 – Ray Allen is a LOCK for the HOF. He is set to pass Reggie Miller for most three point shots in his career and he will do it in FOUR less seasons. He is one of the best shooters the NBA has ever seen and he has one (so far) championship under his belt. He’s in.

#2 – Ray Allen will ALWAYS be remembered a Celtic regardless of the length of his tenure in Boston. Look at Bill Walton. He played ONE full season for the green and yet no one remembers his as a Clipper. Most young fans even forget his contributions to the Blazers in which he was in his prime. He is forever a Celtic and proud of it. Same goes for Danny Ainge. Seven years in green, 7 or 8 years in Sacramento, Portland and Phoenix… where do you remember him most? In Boston. If Scal would stop denigrating his jersey number, it would be up in the rafters already. How bout DJ? Dennis Johnson played seven years in green and seven years in Phoenix and Seattle. He won a championship and Finals MVP BEFORE coming to Boston yet he is best remembered as the Celtics defensive minded point guard. Paul Silas? Same deal. How ’bout the Chief? Five years as a Warrior, Five years as a Bull and Hornet. Won a title with the Bulls. Twelve years in Boston. Always a Celtic. It was as if he never left or never played anywhere before. Ray Allen’s tenure w the Bucks will be forgotten 10 years from now. His career highlight will always be his time in Boston.

#3 – Don Nelson will never relinquish Ellis for Allen and T. Allen and Scal’s expiring contracts. Lets face it, if he does, then M. Ellis has more issues then we know of.

#4 – Though Ellis would combine w Rondo to make the fastest back court in the league, Ellis has to have the ball in his hands more the Allen Iverson did in his prime, his height (or lack of) would make our back court vulnerable on the defensive end. Okay, he is a good scorer on an AWFUL Golden State team. He is unproven on a team full of scorers where sharing the wealth is a team credo.

#5 – Injuries. His worst injury came in an off-court issue. I am tired of that bull shit. Big Uno Uno is enough for me in that area. Ellis has missed more than 20 games twice in his four career (not including current season) and never played a full season. Imagine Ellis goes down and we have no Ray Allen, no Tony Allen and no Marquis… Who’s back him up? Pierce? Scary thought.

Personally, I’d rather have a proven clutch scorer struggling than an unproven guy who is injury prone and has a rep of being a ball pig. I’d rather keep Ray until the end of the season when he has already agreed to taking a lesser role and salary with the team to remain in green. Imagine Ray Allen coming off the bench next season with Rasheed, Big Baby and Marquis. That’s a second unit any opponent would cringe at.
January 28, 2010 at 3:27 am | Jean Andrew

Nick, you couldn’t have said it any better. End of discussion!!!
January 28, 2010 at 4:03 am | Nick Gelso

Thanks Jean! Expect a response from Calvin. He is feisty. lol
January 28, 2010 at 3:20 pm | Calvin

Oh, man. You are killing me today. I’ve reached a point of exhaustion today, and this isn’t even my team we are discussing. You need a Laker beatwriter for me to battle.

But I can’t resist this kind of thing, so here goes:

#1- Don’t get me wrong. Personally I think Ray Allen probably deserves to be in the hall of fame. But not on the basis of your argument. He is definitely one of the best shooters the NBA has ever seen, but that isn’t the beginning and end to basketball. The career three pointers made list is seriously skewed because of the shortening of the line and the evolution of basketball. It is not a ticket to the hall of fame. In fact, were it not for a few famous clutch playoff performances, Miller would probably be on the outside looking in himself. Look at the rest of the names in the top 5: Dale Ellis, Peja Stojakovic (Peja is #4 all time in 3 pointers made?!?), and Jason Kidd (this one shocked me. Kidd is a horrible shooter from 18 feet, imagine how many threes he had to have taken over the course of his career to become #5 all time). I could go on with the rest of the top 10, but all of them with the exception of Ellis are basically modern era guys. Career leader in 3 pointers made is a nice title to have on your resume but it is relatively inconsequential when we are talking about hall of fame consideration. Scoring twenty points a game over the course of a 15 year career and winning a title as a third option to me are more compelling arguments.

#2- This is an interesting point of view and one I suppose I failed to consider. Your first sentence is “look at Bill Walton”. Bill Walton represents our problems perfectly. I wasn’t alive during most of his Blazers career, although I think for fans with historical perspective, that is how he will obviously be remembered. He did spend one season with the Celtics, which as a Celtics fan clearly shines brightest in your memory. I remember him in 1986, but as a fan in Los Angeles I have many more memories of the time he spent with the Clippers. After his career ended he returned and spent many years as a color man for the Clippers, which reinforces my memories of him in that uniform above all others. But because you’re a Celtics fan, memories of a player in your uniform are likely to stand out above all others. I would venture to guess that most people actually dont remember Walton mainly as a Celtic. Ainge I actually think of as a journeyman more than anything (my most vivid memories are of him as a Suns player). DJ and Parish spent more time in Celtics uniforms than any other team and are not really applicable to this debate. Silas was before my time and I only think of him as a Celtic because I recently read Bill Simmons’ book.

All that being said I think there is some stock in being remembered on the team in which he won a title. And because he didn’t have a lot of memorable playoff moments in either Seattle or Milwaukee, Ray will probably be remembered as a Celtic, assuming he doesn’t leave and find more success elsewhere.

Regardless, from your perspective, time played in green shines brightest. I understand that sentiment, as I still think of a guy like Robert Horry as a Laker, even though he won titles with the Rockets and later with the hated Spurs. But you have to understand that it isnt necessarily the general perception.

#3- It would actually have to be Allen for Ellis and other contracts on the Warriors end, because Ray is making 18.7 million and Ellis is only making 11. The player mentioned most often is Vlad Radmanovic. The Celtics would get to keep Tony Allen and Scalabrine. And from the Warriors end it would be purely a salary dump. They would have no interest in re-signing Ray after the season. The Warriors are a notoriously cheap franchise, and Don Nelson has proven to be a completely unreliable GM. Sure, Stephen Jackson is insane, but Nelson traded him away for nothing. I think blaming the player for the decision making of an incompetent, money starved franchise is a bit unfair.

#4- I also think it is unfair to compare Ellis to Allen Iverson. Where does this idea come from that he has to have the ball in his hands? He spent the first few years of his career with Baron Davis, a point guard who spends more time holding the ball than nearly any PG in the league, and they co-existed fine. Ellis shot 47 and 53% in his full two seasons at shooting guard, scoring 16 and 20 points a game. That sounds about right for what the Celtics would need from him. He has struggled with his turnovers since moving to point guard, and that is because unlike Allen Iverson it is unnatural for him to handle the ball constantly. Sure, he is a little undersized for a two guard but he is quick enough to stay with the guards that routinely get past Ray Allen at this stage in his career. Besides, the Celtics play small ball all the time anyway with guys like House and Tony Allen. Rondo is a terror defensively and Ellis is only a liability on the low post, where guys like Perkins are likely to be there to erase mistakes. Besides, Pierce usually takes the responsibility of defending the best perimeter player on the opposition anyway. There is no argument for the Celtics losing out defensively by trading away Ray Allen for a quicker defensive player. It isn’t like he is 6′ 9″.

#5- While it is true that Ellis has had problems over the course of his career, he is also only 25 years old. Clearly he is healthy right now, and doesn’t necessarily show any signs of breaking down anytime soon. Ray Allen is 35, and although he has had few injuries in his career, would you really bank on his long term health over Ellis? And a semi-inconsistently healthy Ellis is more valuable than a Ray Allen who will give you diminishing returns.
January 28, 2010 at 6:30 pm | Nick Gelso

I am too tired. I will postpone my response until tomorrow.